Having been close friends and collaborators for 26 years, Jeremy Saulnier and Macon Blair have now created their most well-renowned and critically acclaimed piece yet (though reviews for their first feature MegaCop are somewhat difficult to find). Blue Ruin, a triumph at Sundance London just last week, is now set for its theatrical release in the UK, and we had the pleasure of speaking to the talented duo over the phone.
Discussing their own history together, they speak about making Blue Ruin a unique film, in spite of the conventionalism of the genre at hand. While Macon discusses getting into the head of killer Dwight, Jeremy speaks about the future of filmmaking, and how much power the internet has – particularly pertinent as their film was helped along by a triumphant Kickstarter campaign.
When you read the term ‘revenge thriller’ you ca’t help but roll your eyes and expect something you’ve seen a million times before. But Blue Ruin is so unique and creative – how challenging was it to approach such common territory and create something so different?
Jeremy Saulnier: To be quite honest, we had aspirations to do a more standard thriller. But we couldn’t compete on a level of really tight choreographed action scenes, with a certain level of spectacle. We felt like grounding a very familiar scenario in our own world, to make it much more attainable and more realistic. That’s where the narrative came from, we’d never really seen a revenge movie with such an inept protagonist. Someone who is just an everyman, who doesn’t have all of these standard skill sets or a military background to lean on. So we couldn’t afford to do an action movie the right way, so we did it the wrong way.
Unlike many films of this ilk, the violence is never glorified, and every death feels significant and impactful. Was it tough to remain faithful to the conventionalities of the genre, and yet counteract them so heavily?
JS: Yeah for us it was all about making sure that not only did the violence have that emotional impact, but that it had a narrative impact. The violence had to be there to elevate the scenario. There’s only one act of gratuitous violence in the movie, and it involves a crossbow, but that’s to serve a specific purpose, it elevates the narrative and leads towards a pay-off. The violence has to be story relevant and of great cost to the characters in the movie, and the audience as well.
Dwight’s so reluctant to kill and almost afraid of doing it. How vital for you both that the viewer was able to relate to him and understand what he’s doing and why he’s doing it?
Macon Blair: You’ve summed it up right there, that’s the whole concept. To pluck someone from the audience, any regular person, and put them in this action movie scenario. The whole thing was, what would you do if the bad guys were coming after you with guns?
Macon how did you go about getting in to the head of Dwight? On paper he’s a killer, but were you able to find the human elements in him and relate to him yourself?
MB: Firstly yeah, the killer part came much later. Jeremy and I spoke about the script at great length for probably a year before we shot it, so we we really thought about who this guy was before we shot it. It was just placing myself in that scenario.
You mentioned you’ve been discussing the idea for a year – how much of a luxury is it that you two go back so long and are such good friends, that you were able to spend time creating the character? Because in many cases I imagine it’s all done through agents, and scripts in the post.
MB: Not only was it a luxury, but it was our only option. Ultimately it’s our greatest asset because we can collaborate together, we didn’t have to worry about outside opinions, and we didn’t have it filtered in any way. Fortunately it’s precisely what Jeremy had in his head and was intending to do. Our history of working together certainly benefited that and made that possible.
So far back do you both go?
JS: Our first collaboration was 26 years ago. A little action film, like Miami Vice and Robocop – ours was called MegaCop, featuring a rogue cop whose partner is killed by a drug dealer named Sanchez. Actually, I have the DVD of that movie in my jacket pocket as speak, because we’re cutting a making of documentary for the movie, and we might include some shots from that old movie we made when we were about 13 years old. I was watching it this morning ad it’s hilarious. We were tiny.
Have you got any ambitions of one day remaking MegaCop?
JS: In 1988 we made MegaCop, and in 1990 we made the sequel. So MegaCop 2000 is actually where Macon and I reunited, because he went to junior high school while I was still in elementary school, so I was on my own and my closest friends had moved out of town, and I saw Macon and a bunch of friends rolling by in a busted up, 1976 Pontiac Ventura, and they were out on location to shoot the sequel, so I went there and got my pyrotechnic kit, my firecrackers and I was initiated into the gang of filmmakers. That’s now the core group of collaborators that we had for the next two decades. There is so much that is taken from our youth and that we utilise in Blue Ruin, the same stomping grounds, and it felt very great to finally go full circle and create something we were proud of that utilised all of our upbringings and our love of gory, fun cinema, but also marked our maturation. It’s a little more emotional, and raw and will resonate even with art house audiences. If you were there on the streets in 1988 and told us we’d make an art house film that showed at Cannes…
Your journey is inspirational. So many kids at 13 make movies with their friends, but nothing comes of it. So what would you say to people out there practicing their craft? Because you’ve shown there is a career in there…
JS: Exactly. I knew since I was eight years old that I wanted to be a filmmaker, and it started with our youth together, collaborating and experimenting. We were directing, acting and shooting, everything. The key is finding your team, finding people who are likeminded and equally as passionate about filmmaking as you are. If not, have fun in your backyard and make your own movies, because that’s how I started. Recreating action scenes on a miniature scale with G.I. Joe figures. It’s all about persistence, you have to the ability to tell stories, but if you really believe in yourself, the key is that the biggest hurdle in this industry, is convincing others that you belong. Also, don’t be reckless. I had a parallel career. The reason I was able to make Blue Ruin is because I pursued a soul-sucking career in advertising, and I invested in real estate, that’s what made this possible for me. It was a very practical approach and not expecting anything from the industry and knowing it would take a long time to sneak in the back door – and it did, it took over 20 years. But the key is, if you stay standing, others will fall by the wayside, you’ve just got to stay in the game.
What also helped was the triumphant Kickstarter project. It still surprises me at how powerful and resourceful the internet can be – it must be so encouraging to young filmmakers such as yourselves, that there are other ways to get movies made these days?
JS: Filmmaking is democratised, especially as far as the technology side is concerned. You can make films with these great new, digital cameras for so cheap. But the other side of it is, once you make a movie it’s still possible for it to be seen by millions of people, you can bypass the system. Take Blue Ruin, once our film was released the power of social media really took hold of it. I stand corrected, because what this film is doing on Twitter and Facebook is astronomical, at one point we hit number seven on iTunes, and it was driven by key quotes on Twitter that over a million people saw, reviews from celebrities, and that really hit me and struck me. This is indeed the future and the power is immense.
So just finally, it’s been six years since your last collaboration before Blue Ruin. Please tell me we won’t have to wait that long for the next one?
JS: It’s a hell of a lot easier now. I don’t want to count my chickens before they hatch though. I actually don’t know what it’s like to have a film funded by outside financiers, I’ve only had to fight uphill battles and try and convince people that I belong in the industry. It’s always been a fight. Now that it looks my next project won’t be a fight, I’m a little scared. I may try and talk myself out of it, I need some sort of resistance to feel comfortable, because this is cushy for me, and I don’t trust it!
Blue Ruin is released on May 2nd, and you can read our review here.
