To mark the release of the truly remarkable science fiction thriller Ex Machina – we had the pleasure of discussing the project with two (and therefore half) of it’s cast members, Domhnall Gleeson and Alicia Vikander.
The former plays Caleb, beguiled by Vikander’s Ava; an artificial intelligence being, seemingly trapped in scientist Nathan’s (Oscar Isaac) isolated mansion. We spoke about what attracted them to the roles, their perception of Ava, the talents of writer/director Alex Garland – while Gleeson tells us about his joy at seeing Isaac again when turning up for the initial reading for the eagerly anticipated Star Wars production.
Did you feel like you needed to understand a bit of the science to act these roles?
Domhnall Gleeson: My answer to that is pretty short, I watched documentaries and read a certain amount, but I just needed to know what I was talking about. It was different for you Alicia, because you were playing Ava.
Alicia Vikander: Yeah, in one way we don’t know if Ava exists but if she does, I haven’t seen her. So it was a bit of clean sheet creating her, but I did the same thing, I read. What helped me the most was the fear of robots and technology that a lot of other humans share. That was interesting because I was questioning myself and whether I felt that way, and I started to read a lot about the human body instead and human function and brain function and suddenly after reading two books I started to feel like a machine as I started to read about dopamine and electrons and why I feel certain things, why I fall in love. Then I started to see myself as an organic machine and that helped me open up and be a bit more welcoming to the idea of robots.
Do you still think that you’re just a machine? Or is there more to it?
AV: That is a big question. It’s hard, I question myself when reading that information, because when you look at yourself, I feel like I know my own brain and my own thoughts and I want to tell myself that they’re single-handedly just mine and that I have a certain soul, so it’s interesting to read about how things technically and chemically work.
How did the technicality of Ava work, portraying a robot?
AV: CGI. I was wearing a sort of Spider-Man grey suit that you see parts of, so I had that tight onesie on when shooting the film. The shape that you see as Ava is what we saw, so I had this whole silver suit going up all the way to my head, and I was bald, and then we had the top of my forehead built over my head, so you see that clear shape and line you see in the film. So I was a bit strange.
DG: And otherworldly, it was brilliant. Because they built the forehead back and actually have it drop down on to the skull so it looked like it was put on top. They didn’t have to do that, but I love the fact that they did.
AV: It was a money issue, I think. It’s just an indie film and I think almost half of the budget went on just making the top of my head and my tummy.
DG: That’s what they told my agent.
AV: You forget, because it was such a special look, you don’t think about it. But I remember the first time I went to the canteen in the studio and I had a little coat on and ordered food and suddenly the entire place just turned their heads. Then I remembered what I looked like.
Cab you describe your first reaction when reading the script?
DG: It was phenomenal.
AV: One of the best scripts I’ve read.
DG: I think it might be the best one. He’s [Alex Garland] is the sort of writer I’m in love with. I love the way he writes, the sort of material he creates, and I love how concise he is. One sentence tells you everything.
AV: When I read it I couldn’t stop, it was like reading the best thrillers. I hopefully had a similar journey when reading the script that the audience will have, which is rare. Normally you have to use your imagination a lot, but I was sucked in to it. Normally you have stage directions telling you things, but in this script the story is within the dialogue, between those three characters. With Ava I just wanted to play her. She isn’t really described, what she is, how she is, how she talks, whatever she transcends. It’s all just so subtle.
Did that give you a lot of freedom in the role?
AV: Yeah it did. I’m glad that Alex invited me to have long conversations about her, trying to figure out who she was. But he was also very open to let me do my thing. I had an idea, which you get when you read a script and your imagination starts going, about the way she moved and the way she talked. It was something he just let me find myself.
Would you say that Ava is arguably the most human of three characters in the film? In that she has that instinct to survive, but also she wants to experience things and see the outside world?
AV: That’s your opinion about it.
I related most to Ava.
DG: More relatable is different to being more human though, isn’t it?
AV: It’s interesting, and this discussion came up, but what is human? What do we read as being human? How do I think Ava can pass this test? She’d need to be quite close to whatever we would read as human. So from that I tried to make a perfect human, and then just discover what little offbeats that would make people question my humanity. The fact I have been made, means the person who made me probably tried to make the most exquisite thing, of course. So I tried to use that perfection in the way she moves and talks, and weirdly enough what I found when doing that physicality, was that the flaws are very humane, and suddenly being more perfect is read as being off, and more robotic.
What with this, Frank and About Time, Domhnall, you seem to play a role of an ordinary person, thrust into extraordinary circumstances. What is it about that type of role that appeals to you as an actor?
DG: It’s interesting because it’s not necessarily the role, it’s the project. I want to be a part of telling good stories. Being central to those stories is something I treasure, I never thought I would have the chance to be in every scene in a film, for example, I didn’t think that was what was ahead for me, having done it three or four times now, I can’t believe it, it’s the best thing ever. But yeah there is something. Possibly it’s thing that people seem interested in me for, I guess I look more like a normal person than other movie stars. I look more like people on the street. But for all those scripts I read I just thought, I want to be a part of telling that story, and you fall in love with those characters. If they’re central then often the way an audience experience a movie is through those characters. The same with Cillian Murphy in Sunshine or 28 Days Later – two of Alex’s other films that he wrote, they are towering performances that I would love to be able to get close to, and there’s a challenge there for that too. So there’s a really long answer for a really short, good question.
You were saying before about how incredible Alex’s script is, and it truly is a remarkable screenplay. How beneficial to you think it is to the project that he is directing it as well? It’s obviously the first time he’s ever directed his own screenplay, and do you think there was more of a personal, passion-project feel to it?
DG: I think he just cares about making a good film and he’s a very good director. It’s handy having the screenwriter there as well, because you can ask him questions and Alex can be that if you want him to be – but first and foremost he was the director.
AV: Yeah we all worked in and fell in love with the story and the script, but then in the end you just have to focus on making a good film. You can’t treasure it, you’ve got to let it go, because whatever happens between the actors and circumstances, it’s a bit of magic that happens and sometimes you end up doing something completely different. It’s very floating,. Whatever happens on set.
DG: He wasn’t a dictator, basically. He got the best out of everybody and didn’t just keep on saying, ‘No, do my script!”
In regards to the chemistry between the two of you, if I remember correctly did you both meet in Berlin?
AV: Yes, we did. We actually had a roundtable interview, all paired as the ten ‘shooting stars’ and I remember I answered a question saying, ‘well you know, it’s fun meeting other young actors, like Domhnall, I admire his work.’ I thought maybe he’ll be done in the industry by then, but I hope that we get a chance to work together one day. Then a year later… It’s quite extraordinary.
DG: Yeah it’s crazy, and we got to do it twice. And there’s no-one I would rather work with, Alicia is extraordinary.
AV: Alex didn’t know we had worked together when we got the part.
DG: I know, Anna Karenina isn’t his sort of movie.
And Domhnall you’ve worked with Oscar Isaac again, of course, in Star Wars. That must have been nice catching up with him twice in quick succession?
DG: It was crazy, because I walked into the table reading and there he was. I didn’t know he was going to be there because I didn’t know anybody who was going to be there.
AV: It’s great. Everyone in Ex_Machina got in except me.
DG: Pretty much everyone, The majority of the cast.
I can’t not mention the most uncomfortable scene in the film, which is that dance-off. Domhall. It’s amazing, but you don’t wanna be the third wheel…
DG: Yeah that is so true.
AV: That’s how we all felt, because it was so good.
DG: It would have been great if Caleb had just joined in. That was a mad scene, and they worked hard on that dance. That is an example, right, of Alex being an incredible director. In the script, I don’t even know what it says, like ‘they do a dance’. But it’s so trippy, that’s the director.
AV: And being able to see the flow to a film and where it’s needed. You need a little release, and I would never have been able to go, ‘let’s just put a disco in there’, but that’s the brilliance of the script and how Alex made it work.
Was there a feeling of going back to basics with this film? Because there’s such a small cast, with pretty much one setting throughout – did it have the intimate feel of a stage play?
AV: Yeah I haven’t done a stage play since I was a child, but for me it felt a bit like that. To be able to do 20-22 minute takes. Plus, Domhnall pushes me, he always takes new leads in a scene and tries to go different ways and open doors. Once you go in a direction you can’t go back which means you have another 21 minutes leading down that road. So you end up doing something completely different from anything you’ve done before, and that process of making a film like this, and with Alex never breaking the scene down but letting us do our thing made it very fresh. It could have been draining doing such long takes but it wasn’t.
DG: Yeah we tried to send scenes somewhere else, a different direction. You don’t know where you’ll end up but you know it’s somewhere different. There’s something wonderful about that.
Would you say it’s a different style of acting for both of you then? Something completely new for you?
AV: Film wise, it is quite rare to have such few people. The fact we just had this space, a room we were in, without any furniture. And we weren’t even in the same room, we had a glass wall between us. So it was interesting, because despite the wall we both realised the space between us the most important thing and how we gradually started to move towards each other throughout the scenes, and started to connect. It was very much a physical thing, and the distance and space between us.
DG: Yeah, I hadn’t worked like that before. The film was so different and ‘mystery’ was the word that Alex used a lot, asking us to maintain mystery and concentrate and keeping mystery involved in the room. That being the objective is wonderful, having that at the forefront and working like that was great. It was different but I was glad to be able to do it.
Ex Machina is released on January 21st, and you can read our five star review here.
